Navigating the Challenges of Small Colleges

Scott Novak, founder of the Small College Movement, joins FYI to discuss the major challenges facing small colleges and makes recommendations for how leaders can better articulate the value of their institutions.

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Who is Scott Novak?

Scott Novak is a serial entrepreneur, founding Underscore (acquired by Carnegie) as well as the Small Colleges Movement.

In this Episode

Scott Novak, founder and CEO of the “Small College Movement,” joins FYI host Gil Rogers to talk about the often misunderstood world of smaller institutions, celebrating their triumphs and discussing the innovative strategies that are turning the tides against their larger competitors.

They discuss Scott’s journey through higher education and what made him found SmallCollegeMovement.com as well as the digital and data-driven tactics that are reshaping recruitment today.  This episode spotlights the distinctive benefits that small colleges can offer in a climate that frequently undervalues their contributions. Scott reveals some creative solutions that could help fortify the financial stability of small colleges. It’s a wealth of ideas and information from an expert in his field.

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Episode Transcript

Navigating the Challenges of Small Colleges with Scott Novak

Publishing Date: May 28, 2024

[00:00:00] Gil: Welcome back to the award-winning FYI, For Your Institution, podcast, presented by Mongoose. I’m your host, Gil Rogers. And today, we sit down with the creator of the Small College Movement, Scott Novak. We’re going to talk about the challenges facing small colleges in a hyper-competitive enrollment landscape and how institutions might create a rising tide to raise all boats. Let’s listen in. Hey, Scott. How’s it going?

[00:00:33] Scott: Good, Gil. How are you doing? Good to see you.

[00:00:35] Gil: Yeah, great to see you. I’m doing lovely.

[00:00:37] Scott: Excellent. Year’s off to a great start. Weather’s fantastic. You know, can’t complain. Living the dream.

[00:00:43] Gil: Awesome. You mentioned living the dream. So, one of the dreams I know many people have is, you know, starting something, starting their own thing, being a part of something. I don’t know. You’re definitely one of those people that I would classify as a starter, right?

You started companies. Now, you’re starting movements. And so, I’d love, you know, before we hop into the small college movement, and hear a little bit more about that, I want to hear a little bit about you for the folks who are listening that might not have met you before. How did you get here? And what’s your inspiration?

[00:01:10] Scott: Yeah. So, I’m a higher education lifer, as I like to say. So, I began… and I’m not going to tell the whole story from 1992 because this is, you know, this is a 30-minute podcast, I don’t want to bore everyone, but long story short, I was an intern at my undergraduate institution, Susquehanna University, got into the admissions and enrollment world, worked at a few institutions in the Northeast in the ’90s, and then I got into the other side of the desk, higher education marketing, working with a number of institutions throughout my career.

And I’ll skip a bunch of years. And back in 2016, when I saw a demo of Slate, I said that this is going to change higher education. And I thought that this was the new great invention. And so, I started a company called Underscore, which supported the development of Slate, particularly student search and running search out of a student CRM.

And I was fortunate enough to partner with a company I’ve held in high regard since the early ’90s in Carnegie, that they acquired Underscore. And then, recently, you know, like you said, I, kind of, felt the itch to start something again and have started the small college movement, which certainly I can talk about. So, yeah, it’s been a, a, sort of, a winding road career and one that I’ve very much enjoyed, and I love everything about higher education.

[00:02:23] Gil: I will say that before we started recording, for the benefit of our listeners, we both agreed that the year 1994 is perpetually 15 years ago. So, telling a story that starts in 1992 is really not that long of a story if you have the same mindset that we do.

[00:02:39] Scott: 100%. It was just yesterday, wasn’t it? And I mean, it definitely feels like it. I mean, right? That is funny that that, that’s the way that went, but yeah.

[00:02:47] Gil: Time flies when you’re having fun, right? So, let’s talk about the genesis of that journey because I know you’ve always had ties with small colleges, right? Before we hop into the actual movement, let’s focus in on that origin story a little bit. What’s that all about? I feel like that’s your why for all of the items that you just mentioned.

[00:03:04] Scott: It is. Yeah. So, like I said, I went to a small college in Susquehanna. And I’ve told this story many times, but I felt as if a small college was the right fit for a student like me, relatively shy kid back in the ’80s, and just Susquehanna brought everything out of me that it needed to. And then, went into the admissions world. And I worked for a couple of small colleges.

And then when I got into the marketing side and working with schools, my focus for 25, 26 years has been small colleges. I love what they provide. I love the network they have with their alums, the academic experience that they provide their students. And I just felt that I have an affinity for them. You know, I think the large state institutions get a lot of publicity.

They’re the ones always in the news and in the media and sports and everything else. And a lot of these small colleges, even the ones in small town, rural areas, in the country just don’t get enough love, so to speak. So, I wanted to start that movement to talk positively about small colleges. And it’s just I enjoy every day in working with them.

[00:04:06] Gil: Yeah. So, think it’s funny you mentioned that the… I haven’t used this term in a few podcasts now, so I’ll bring it back, is the annual admissions hype machine, right? And the annual admissions hype machine is focused on U.S. news rankings, and it’s focused on large flagship public institutions, which have their value, clearly, but I used to say if you don’t work at a college that is in the Ivy League or plays football on Saturdays, you’ve got an uphill battle when it comes to reaching and engaging students beside traditional pound-the-pavement outreach that so many institutions do.

And I think some of the great equalizer in some respects has been digital media outreach and being able to, if an institution does a good job with their search strategy and is informed with their data and manages it well using a system like Slate or others, they have a chance, but now, we’ve got this narrative in the space around just questioning the value of education as a whole, higher ed as a whole. And that seems to hit smaller colleges harder than the larger flagship institutions, or the brand name schools, Ivy League institutions that always seem to have seat at the table.

[00:05:13] Scott: Yeah. And look, the, the reality is we’re going to have more colleges close in the coming year or two, if not even beyond that. I think we all recognize that. That said, for every college that closes, I can reel off 100 that are doing incredibly well, they’re successful, there’s no concern about them closing, but the problem is that when we mention one school closing, the assumption is, well, all small schools are going to close. It’s just not true.

And so, the movement is really designed to be the counterpoint to that, right? I wanted to start something to talk positively about it and to spread the word about how small colleges positively affect anyone that’s involved with them. It’s not just the students. It’s the faculty. It’s the community around it.

It’s the alumni network. It’s anyone that has an association with these institutions, have a deep, profound passion for it, like I do for Susquehanna and all the schools that I’ve had the great fortune to work with over the last 30 years.

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[00:06:59] Gil: So, let’s talk about the movement a little bit, right? I’ve outlined all the challenges, right? Media and hysteria. Funding is, of course, a challenge. Location, sometimes, for institutions, can be a challenge. Mostly, I feel just the overarching narrative around higher ed in general, that again is impacting those types of institutions because I hear it from folks all the time.

It’s like, “You go to college to get a job.” And it’s like, well, yes, but you also go to college to get the critical thinking skills that are required to do well in your job and to be able to get a job, right? That was, when I worked at a college in Connecticut, that was one of the things I would talk about all the time with things like experiential learning and also access to career services and support is that you don’t just go to college to get the skills to do a job.

That’s part of it for many students. You got to college to be able to actually get a job, and to be able to keep a job, and to excel in that job. And so, what, what are some of the things that, that you tell people when you’re talking about the value of small colleges that might be missed in this overarching, kind of, media hysteria?

[00:08:03] Scott: Sure. And I don’t want to continually talk… I’m not talking negatively about large state institutions because they are… Both my daughters go to large state institutions. And they have had an incredible academic experience. But what I always say is that when you attend a small college, you are forced to communicate.

And I feel, and I’ve always felt, that the art of communication is something that has been lost, especially in this younger generation when their, their heads are buried in their phones, right? When you go to a small college, you have to engage with your faculty, you have to engage with your peers, you are noticed, people are going to make sure that you’re in class, and, and you get the opportunity to network with people in a classroom of 15 to 20 versus 200 to 300.

Now, like I’ve said often, if I were that type of student that went to a large state institution, back in those days, I would have been more than happy to sit in the back of the classroom, take my notes, take my tests, and move on without ever having to public speak or communicate with anybody. And going to a small college brings that out of students.

And then, of course, there’s the alumni network, which I think is something that’s completely undervalued with the small college because I know that when I received resumes when I was in positions to do so, I found that my best hires came from small colleges because they would get on an interview, and they knew how to talk. They knew how to communicate. They brought different ideas to the table.

And it’s not that I didn’t have great hires that were from larger institutions, but I felt a connection with these people. And I, I feel like the, the lessons learned at these colleges where you are forced to, sort of, interact more and communicate and engage, I feel they can bring that to their professional lives.

And so, to me, that’s some of the distinct advantages. And I could go on and on about that, but I know we don’t have a ton of time, but those are just some of the things that I think are paramount to me as for the advantages of a small college.

[00:09:46] Gil: Yeah. It’s interesting because, like, again, I’m thinking just through the hype machine piece for a moment. Every year, there’s the press releases, largest class ever, right, for so many schools. And I feel like those are more prevalent in, like, the medium-sized institutions that are trying to swing above their weight class and say, “Hey, we’re up here with, with these larger schools.”

But there’s a certain value in not hyping that you’re a large school but, like, doubling down on the small college experience because I feel like somewhere along the way, the idea of being in a more intimate educational environment can get lost on some families. When they’re looking at a high school, they want to be in a school where they have smaller class sizes, and they have more attention from teachers and from guidance counselors, and all these different resources.

And then all of a sudden, when you’re going to college, it’s, “Well, I’m going to…” where schools are publicizing how big they are and how, how many students are enrolling that year, how many applications they received that year, which is its own separate conversation about how and why institutions count those numbers.

But when you, you think about that, and you mentioned the having to talk to faculty and having to talk to their peers, I think there’s a underhyped element of… and I’m, I’m not saying that any institution is going to go out and be like, “We’ve received less applications this year than last year, where we’re in a…” you know, they’re already saying that when we’re hearing about potential closures, and they need to raise that $21 million to keep a building open or whatever.

So, what are some of the things recommend to campuses when you want to encourage them to double down on being small in an environment where there’s these pressures to try to get big?

[00:11:13] Scott: Yeah, that’s a good question. I, I would say that for years, and I think you know this as a marketing guru yourself, I think small colleges have leaned too much on the small-class size pitch, right, just at its surface level. Now, there’s advantages to that, but small colleges have this tendency to say, “We get to know you. We know your name. It’s a small class size,” but they don’t really go into the actual details and outcomes of what those types of experiences provide.

You know, I talked to a friend of mine just the other day. And he was telling me that he went to a, a, a pretty big business. I don’t remember the name of the business, but he went to meet this company that was going to support the school. And 10 of the directors of this large company were from his small institution. And it was probably because of the network. And, and these are the types of stories that I want to encourage small colleges to bring out, right?

Stop trotting out the same tired, small-class size pitch. Well, it’s important. It’s really what becomes of that? Like, what comes out of those types of, small-class environments? Is it, you know, I, I’m getting to sit in the classroom with a PhD with 15 other students versus being taught by a grad assistant in a class of 200? That is an incredible value that just doesn’t get spoken about enough.

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[00:13:20] Gil: So, let’s talk a little bit, too, about the other tactical things institutions might be able to do. And I’m, I’m thinking back to a number of weeks ago, we had Seth O’Dell on the podcast. And he had just written a piece called How to Save a Dying College, right, because his alma mater had just announced that they were closing, right? And it’s one of those hard pills to swallow when your own alma mater is closing, but he made it constructive.

And one of the recommendations he said is, “A lot of these institutions are the largest owners of real estate in their areas because of the academic buildings they have, the residence halls that they have.” And I would not advocate for selling off everything of your entire campus just to keep it open because then you lose the character of the institution. However, these are, you know, from a fiscal responsibility perspective, these are assets, right?

And if there are things that you can do to sell and then lease it back, so you’re not maintaining it, you’re not paying for all the costs associated with these sorts of things. That’s one area from a tactical perspective that an institution might be able to save, money so they don’t have to grow enrollment to hit revenue, right? Obviously, discount rate is another component of all of this. So, what are some tactical things from an enrollment perspective that some of these institutions might consider to boost their fiscal health?

[00:14:39] Scott: I can go a number of different ways in which I would talk to a school about how to address that. I think when a school has financial issues, the assumption is we’re going to cut programs, and we’re going to cut staff. And they don’t necessarily need to do that. I think it’s a, a better understanding of how they’re leveraging their marketing communication assets. How are they currently recruiting? Are they saying the right things?

Are they speaking to students directly? Look, it’s very easy, from a marketing and communication standpoint, to send out a blast email with the same message as every other school in the country, but these small colleges have the opportunity to communicate directly with the student with the right pitch per the student, like, for what motivates that student. And I think understanding the motivations of their prospective students is very important.

I know there’s a lot of solutions out there that will help schools do that. And I think I would work with a small school, I think there’s a lot of different firms and companies that work with these schools that think they have the silver bullet that’s going to help them meet their enrollment goals. And that’s not sustainable, nor is that correct, right? You have to look at it holistically.

How are they handling everything from the initial communication all the way to the time in which they enroll? What type of resources are they providing? Are they providing the right amount of visits for the students? Are they doing the right follow up? And is it specific to the institution’s motivations and goals? And if it’s just standard messaging, standard communications, with the same drawn-out pitch, it’s not going to motivate the student enough to ultimately enroll.

[00:16:07] Gil: Yeah. And I know we’ll be together in July at the National Small Colleges Enrollment Conference. And I know one of the things that I’ll be speaking about while there is the impact of things like direct admission, right? And I know that direct admission has some positives and some negatives in the market at this point, positives being more open access to opportunities, right?

You can’t deny that there are, advantages to telling a student who might not have applied to the school, “Hey, you actually meet our criteria. You should come,” right? And so, they learn about schools that they may not have ever heard of before. The, the downside, of course, being that, for a lot of institutions, it’s just really expensive lead gen or just another angle on traditional search, right? You’re buying your list.

And, you know, instead of saying, “Hey, apply now,” you’re just saying, “Hey, you’re admitted. Apply now,” right? And so, it creates a confusing piece to the market, right? And so, with new things like direct admission and combined with the ability to be more personalize in your follow up, thanks to technology and resources that are out there, I agree with you 100%.

None of these things are silver bullets. And I think the challenge that a lot of institutions fall into is that they think that, “Oh, this next platform that I buy, or this next resource that I invest in is going to be the thing that solves all of our problems.”

And then when it doesn’t, “Well, now, we’ve got another thing that we’re spending money on. And we don’t have any money to spend,” right? So, in this landscape of, new approaches and challenges, what are recommendations that you make to enrollment leaders to, kind of, juggle all of these things?

[00:17:36] Scott: Well, obviously, there, there needs to be a focus on what is the return on investment, right? And I don’t know that we do enough analysis of that to better understand are, are the dollars that we’re putting into this specific program, software, company that’s providing us the support, is it generating the right amount of feedback? And are we doing the right amount of surveys to our students that didn’t attend?

I don’t think schools spend enough time finding out what they didn’t do well versus just assuming that, “Hey, this student came in from a certain area. So, I’m going to assume that my investment in this list purchase was the reason that the student enrolled. So, we’re just going to do that again.” No. I think the students need to give feedback as to what was the turning point for them.

You know, what was the thing that they said, “Hey, this is where I went from lukewarm interest to this is the school for me.”? And, you know, it’s funny because a lot of times, it will be the campus experience, right? How was the tour? How was, you know, the opportunity that they had on campus? What were their recruitment events that got them to turn? Those types of things. It could be athletics, could be a number of things.

But, like, going back to what you said earlier, and, you know, we talked about 1994 because I’m going to go back there again, 15 years ago. And you probably remember this, too. Like, I would walk into NACAC back in the ’90s. And I would maybe see, I don’t know, 25, 30 booths or tables of these companies that provide these levels of services. I mean, you go in there now, and there’s hundreds.

And if I’m an enrollment leader for a small college, I am probably being inundated with the companies and the support that say, “Hey, if you work with us, you’re going to meet your enrollment goals.” How do you pour through and sift through all of that? That is a very difficult task in and of itself.

So, I think, having done this now for 30-some years, looking back on my time, I feel like I can provide the right support and help. I would love to help more small colleges better understand how they can go from slow enrollment growth, or down in enrollment, to really finding a way to better leverage their resources in the solutions that they have the best return on investment.

[00:19:34] Gil: Yeah. So, you know, a couple weeks ago, obviously, this enrollment season has been marred with FAFSA delays and tech issues and challenges. And so, that’s a big impact on classes this year. And one of the things I was speaking with Joel Bauman from Duquesne University about was, you know, years ago, probably 1993, 1994, the Dairy Farmers Association did the whole Got Milk? campaign, right? And they all got together.

And they said, “Hey, a rising tide raises all boats. If we get people to drink more milk, then we all sell more milk, right?” And I think that, we could probably see, and we were saying this in the context of, well, the government, you know, should be helping to support filing of more FAFSAs, so they need to do a national campaign like a Got FAFSA? campaign, and the people who that would resonate with would be the parents because they’ll remember the Got Milk? campaign, right?

So, that works. But when we think about small colleges, is there a benefit or an advantage to, kind of, category sales, right? Like, having there be this, kind of, you know, obviously, your movement being the genesis of this, saying, “Hey, we are here, you know. Small colleges are a benefit to society as a whole. Here are the benefits overall.”

And, and you’ve got institutions here, kind of, building this cooperative to, kind of, say, “Hey, we are here because, you know, rising tide raises all ships, right?” And so, if we can sell the category of small colleges overall, that’s going to benefit all of the institutions that fall into that category, right?

[00:21:00] Scott: Not surprisingly, you explained it better than I did. So, that’s exactly the reason for the movement, which is, right, I think institutions have to embrace the idea and just say it, “We’re a small college. This is what we are.” And we don’t have to say, “We’re only two hours from New York,” right? You can have the advantage of your small rural town provides a great academic community for a student to be successful.

And so, yeah, a couple of schools that I have had the privilege of speaking with about this is the admission staff, the counselors need to embrace the small college, exactly how you said it, first to get the student interested in the, the mindset of, “Okay. A small college is what I need,” then you can sell your institution and the specific advantages of that institution as you move forward.

So, you said it perfectly. It’s exactly right. And that’s what schools need to embrace and do. And that’s, sort of, a lot of the conversations that I’m having with them right now.

[00:21:53] Gil: Yeah. I, I love that idea of really embracing who you are. And there are so many schools where their value proposition is, “We are two hours from New York or two hours from Boston,” or, “We’re right outside of downtown,” or whatever, right? And it’s like, oh, or maybe we really… I remember I was at a conference once and it was with folks from Truman State University in Missouri.

They were lamenting the fact that they were, you know, far away from a lot of things is the nice way to say middle of nowhere. And Truman State’s not in the middle of nowhere. It’s a great school. And, you know, we stumbled into… and this was one of those, like, late-night hot dogs in Chicago great conversations, where we stumbled into this tagline of, you know, “Make your own fun.” That’s what we said we should say from an institution.

It’s like, you can either go to a school that’s in a city where you’ve got way all this other stuff and all these crazy things that are there, or you can make your own fun. This was years ago. So, now, their tagline today is, “Distinct by design,” right? And it’s like, that’s a pretty awesome way to, kind of, summarize who you are as an institution.

And it’s like, I think more and more, we need to embrace it and differentiate, and not, like you said, get into the small class sizes, easy access to faculty, and if you, you get 10 friends together, you can start a club, right? Like, that’s every college in the country, right? So, like, we’ve got to differentiate a little bit more. And I think a differentiator is that we are smaller, right?

And that’s the true category of small colleges. So, Scott, I appreciate you being here and taking the time. And I appreciate you being a starter and being someone who’s, kind of, leading the way with this movement. For the folks who want to follow along, be a part of the conversation, what are some of the ways that they can get in touch with you?

[00:23:32] Scott: Sure. So, I have a website. Now, again, I’m going to say that I am not a strong technical person, so I did the website myself, but it’s smallcollegemovement.com. You can follow me on Twitter or X, @_smallcolleges. I’m on LinkedIn as well. I’d love to connect people on there. And if you’re a small college, make sure that you sign up to attend the National Small College Enrollment Conference. You can go to nscec.com.

It’s in Charlotte, North Carolina, July 30th and 31st this year. It is the best conference to attend if you are a small college. So, I encourage you to do that. And I know, Gil, you’ll be speaking there. And it’s, it’s just a great conference. And I, I do have my podcast, which you can find on YouTube, Small College Movement. And you’re going to be a guest of mine someday.

So, yeah, those are all the ways. I’m on Spotify as well. So, you can find the Small College Movement there. But again, it’s a way to promote the small college. And we need to do it. We need to embrace this, and we need to speak positively about it because I’ve had enough of the discussion of, you know, small colleges closing.

[00:24:28] Gil: Awesome, awesome. Well, I appreciate you, again, being here. And for our listeners, we’ll put all the links to these resources in the episode notes. So, thank you again, Scott. We appreciate it. And we will see you all next time on FYI.

[00:24:42] Scott: Thank you, Gil.[00:24:43] Gil: Bye-bye.

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